MAYA KOSOVER: Anytime I'm engaging in art making or materials, it is a spiritual practice to me. It is a devotional practice to me. And I don't even mean that as in like, it's always so serious. I just mean I'm always tapped into something larger. It's endless when you think about how much there is to make with, and I think Chicago is a really beautiful city to really, to do all of that.

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ALISA ROSENTHAL: Hey all, thanks for checking out Chicago Humanities Tapes - we are the audio extension of the live Chicago Humanities Spring and Fall Festivals. I’m your host Alisa Rosenthal, and today, Maya Kosover and Gabriel Chalfin-Piney-González, the creative partners behind the Jewish Museum of Chicago sat down with me in support of Chicago-based klezmer band Upshtat Zingerai. We chat artistic process, their visions for having a future physical space, and how the museum project was started to fill a void in the Chicago arts scene as a hub for Jewish artists and community members. You can meet them at Upshtat Zingerai’s performance on April 27th at 6pm at the Athenaeum Center for Thought & Culture as a part of the Lakeview neighborhood day where a lot of other fun stuff is also going on. Tickets and more information available at chicagohumanities.org.

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GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: My name's Gabriel Chalfin-Piney-González, a newly double-hyphenated last name. And yeah, I'm an artist and organizer based in Chicago, originally from the Hudson Valley in New York. I'm the founding director of the Jewish Museum of Chicago. I'm also a artist, performer, and currently working as exhibition and residency manager at an art center in Chicago.

MAYA KOSOVER: My name is Maya Kosover, and I am a visual artist, an educator, and a facilitator, and recently been involved in the Jewish Museum of Chicago.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: Hi! Can you tell me a little bit about how the Jewish Museum of Chicago came to be?

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: Absolutely. Yeah, so, you know, I'm somebody who grew up in upstate New York and spending a lot of time in New York City. And I saw just this real breadth and commitment to Jewish art and culture really throughout the state for me, which, you now, as this smaller population of the state, it was really inspiring. And then I moved to Chicago in 2018 and just like, couldn't really find my people, both like a mixture of practicing Jewish artists, people working in craft, people working in activism and kind of gave up a little bit. I ended up moving to Maine for a few years and really small state, less than a million people. And this like strange bustling Jewish community, there was a Jewish museum there and I was like, okay, like Google "Jewish museum of Chicago." And I was like, huh, there's nothing there. You know, there are some other institutions that serve maybe similar pursuits, but I moved back to Chicago three years ago and just started having conversations with people and it became clear that we needed this community and we needed the space, whether it was the idea of the space or maybe physically in the future. So yeah, and I'll just mention that this week is actually the two year anniversary of the museum starting. We launched it in Passover of 2023. So, yeah.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: That's so exciting, mazels.

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: I'll let Maya kind of expand on that.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: it strikes me that the museum might be a bit nomadic. Is there a physical space? Are there multiple spaces where you can check it out?

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, it's a great question. So, you know, I love a little humor and things that I do and a little absurdity. So starting the museum as a place that didn't exist at all physically was really interesting. Within the first month of making the Instagram, people were like, hey, I have this like, you now, 20 years of art from my grandmother that I'd love to donate to the museum. Hey, we're coming in from Berlin, our theater company, we'd love to perform at the museum. And I was like, whoa. Okay, so people really think this is legitimate. Right now it's been just the two of us really for the last year. And as great as that could be, it poses this question of like, we are both volunteers. As much as we might want to do this full time, we can only give so much of our labor. And so we don't know what the future will look like. I think this idea of a brick and mortar space, and there not being like a destination or a year for that to me is really exciting. And then for some others are like, we need the space now. And so it'll be interesting to see kind of how community response and involvement will dictate what the future will be.

MAYA KOSOVER: I think Gabriel's spot on and we don't have a particular date or time that we will have a physical building. But I think as I continue to pour into this project, I very much do have a physical site in mind. And it is like grand and gorgeous and multifaceted and multipurpose. Like there is exhibition and gallery space, but there's also like a market space where local artists are selling their work. There's also a performance area. There's like bar and bat mitzvah students getting tutored over here. And there's like organizers organizing over here and there's a Yiddish class happening over there. And there's our herbalists in residence are out in the garden. So like, I have this really, and when I talk to other people about it, that too, right? They're just like, where? And then some people are like, oh, so like a JCC, but like for us, like that actually can hold us and and kind of our politics and our values and like a 2.0 of what a Jewish community center could be. So, and actually someone who's has really exciting ideas is Hannah Mira from Upshtat Zingerai. I've talked with her a few times just about brainstorming and dreaming. And she comes from like an urban design background. So she's like, I want a Jewish block, like a Jewish street, and the Jewish Museum is there. And so I just think it's fun to be working with artists, creatives that are just really in a dreaming place. Even if none of these things happen, it's still so exciting to hear what it is we're building towards or thinking about in terms of what Jewish community can look like in Chicago.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: Gosh, you two are great at speaking about this. I got chills. I totally want this. That's awesome. And it seems like the upcoming event with Upshtat Zingerai at the Athenaeum is kind of like a little taster of the events that the Jewish Museum of Chicago is already curating and bringing and what this could look like at a larger scale. So it, from what I understand, there's a lot of variety that's going to be happening at this live event. Are either of you able to speak about what people can expect at the Athenaeum on the 27th?

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: I mean, I cannot exactly speak for Upshtat, but I can say that every performance they give is both this beautiful expression of their own approaches and experiences of Jewish culture and honoring both traditional klezmer music and also adaptations and a new generation learning and embracing that art form. And I'll just really quickly say that it really is this mutually beneficial relationship. I met Hannah Mira by just kind of coincidence. I had posted, I was doing choreographing a performance and I was like, I really need like a klezmer violinist. Does anybody know? And like 10 people sent me Hannah Mira's info. And so we met and we rehearsed together and we performed and that was in October of 2023. And it was a really beautiful experience. And yeah, from that, it just became this thing where like we were both inviting each other like when we would put on a program, be like, hey, do you guys want to perform? And then they'd be like hey, do you want a table? And so it's become this really beautiful like symbiotic relationship, which I don't know where it will go, but I'm excited for, you know, just that sense of camaraderie and like pushing each other forward. What I will say about the actual event is there will be about, we haven't decided exactly, but a handful of Jewish artists from the community offering different types of practices and they'll be selling their wares at this concert and then there'll be dancing, there'll singing, there'll the band playing and any other surprises, I think you'll have to just come and see.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: And from reading about the event that there's live dancing, it sounds like with dance lessons, and it sounds like the sense of community that the two of you are expressing from how people are reaching out and getting excited about the Jewish Museum of Chicago will completely be replicated at this event. Like, if you want that adult JCC for us, feeling, vibes for your spring this sounds like the perfect event. Oh, that's so fun. I can't wait. What does the community of the museum look like now and where do you see it going?

MAYA KOSOVER: Totally, so basically Gabriel and some friends launched this beautiful thing and it immediately gained a lot of traction and a lot people were interested, wanting to be involved, had ideas for shows, for collaborations and it became very clear that we needed to involve more people but we didn't really have the structure to do so. So I would say the main thing that Gabriel and I are working right now is actually having the Jewish Museum of Chicago create an artist collective of people that can actually hold this museum, hold this vision, and bring forward all of the programming and excitement that is buzzing around the museum. So we're really interested in... I can't even give you a number of how many people join this artist-elective. Maybe it'll be so many, maybe it'll a handful, but really just more people to vision it out and hold some of the labor that it takes to put on something like this.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: For people who are listening who are interested in being involved or want to check it out, where would be a good place to get that information?

MAYA KOSOVER: Yes. So we are about to announce basically an interest form that answers all these questions. So it'll be on our website, it'll on our Instagram, we'll send it out through our newsletter, but we're going to basically be sending out an interest form trying to gather who wants to be involved, how do people want to tap in, and what gifts and skills do they want to bring to the project.

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: And I'll just add that if you come onto the Chicago Humanities event, it'll be a special preview of a physical form. So you can fill it out right there. And before anybody...

ALISA ROSENTHAL: Ah, that's so cool. So you can be the first to know. I'm curious to hear too about your personal creative practices especially as your, your conceptual museum is so tied to obviously visual art. So, I'm interested in hearing a bit about what you're working on.

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, and I want to answer it and not answer it in some ways. I think that I don't want us to pin down necessarily what the Jewish Museum is yet, because that's only Maya and my ideas right now. And I think maybe it's evidenced a little bit by like how we met, and I'll try to be really brief. You know, we did a Jewish Sacred Arts Retreat for three or four days out in Western Massachusetts. The organizers connected us like regionally. So Maya and I, our first time meeting was on a 12 or 14 hour road trip to New York from Chicago or to Massachusetts. And I think we're both ones for asking big overarching questions of like, what are your dreams? What's exciting you? What are your values? And we just bonded on that and like, a few weeks later, Maya and I were swimming in Lake Michigan. I was like, hey, do you want to run this museum with me? And you know, they said yes. And I just say that because I really would love, in all of my work, I try and highlight as many mediums as possible. And if we can't support you, hopefully we know someone else who can come in and do that work. So yeah, I really feel like we're at the beginning of how we support artists and I've, I fell in love with ceramics recently and I'm 33 and like to fall in love with a new medium at my age, like is really exciting. It's like, oh, I got decades to learn. I know nothing. And just that process of learning. I think that pursuit of education is something that we're both passionate about and I'll just be for myself, but

MAYA KOSOVER: Yeah, totally. I was a public school teacher for a long time. And my last year teaching was during the pandemic. It became a really different career and a really joyless career. And my partner asked me, if you could do anything with your days, what would it be? And I just said, be with materials and create art. And so she's like, okay, so. And so I left teaching and I basically went and did that. And I found very quickly that when I dedicated myself to my art or to my creativity, a very strong attention and dedication to my Judaism and to my spirituality came right along with it. So for me, there is no differentiation between my Judaism and my art practice, they are fully one. Anytime I'm engaging in art making or materials, it is a spiritual practice to me. It is a devotional practice to me. And I don't even mean that as in like, it's always so serious. I just mean I'm always tapped into something larger. I have what I feel like are like communications with G-d through materials. I feel close to G-d through material and I also feel really close to other people in co-creation. So what that looks like is really kind of like repetitive, trance-like things, where I'm like making the same thing over and over again, or writing the same things over and again. I'm mostly a collage artist. So I work with layering and paper and cutting and gluing and dismembering and remembering. And so that's what I can say about my process. And similar to Gabriel, I'm constantly falling in love with new mediums. So recently I've just started going to the Mosaic School of Chicago, which is like such a gem. And now I'm like creating with shards of glass or I'm collaging with shard of glass and pieces of terracotta clay. I'm, like, oh my G-d, this is like, it's endless when you think about how much there is to make with, and I think Chicago is a really beautiful city to really, to do all of that.

ALISA ROSENTHAL: Those were really beautiful stories. Gabriel, Maya, thank you so much and I look forward to seeing you at the event.

GABRIEL CHALFIN-PINEY-GONZÁLEZ: Thanks. Have a great day.

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ALISA ROSENTHAL: For more information on Upshtat Zingerai and the Jewish Museum of Chicago, head to the show notes or chicagohumanities.org.

Chicago Humanities Tapes is produced and hosted by me, Alisa Rosenthal, with help from the hardworking staff over at Chicago Humanities who are programming and producing our speakers and the live events. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast programming, the best way to support the podcast is to leave a rating and review, click subscribe to be notified about new episodes, and scroll through previous episodes for a gem you might’ve missed. We’ll actually be back next week instead of our usual every two weeks, with another exclusive interview for you, previewing another upcoming event - you’re definitely not going to want to miss it, coming up next week, my conversation with the artists behind Heavy Pages Press aka Heart and Bone Signs, and their unearthing of Chicago’s ghost sign history, classic uncovered sign design sketches, and preservation. Thanks for listening, and as always, stay human.

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